Well, I wasn't talking about the chemicals there, if you'd like, I will. Again, there's a lot of money in the food industry as well, and if you don't buy organics, these people get a 0% share of it. Part of the market decided that these chemicals are harmful, and a group of farmers and ranchers decided to capitalize on that market. Regardless of whether or not it really is harmful to you to have all the chemicals in your food, no one is growing this food out of the kindness of their hearts.
Personally, I'm inclined to agree that a lot of it is pretty bad for you. So is milk. Aspartame. Tobacco. Marijuana. Raisins. I don't go on campaigns to shut these things down, I just tell people, and let them decide on their own. Vote with your wallet, it's the only vote that you can make which actually counts.
Actually you're wrong, and it's completely the other way around. 'Organics', as we call them, has allllwaaayyyysss been around. It's just food grown normally. Like when your grandparents had a garden in the back yard growing tomatoes. The worst thing they could use was a store-bought pesticide!
Food scientists are constantly testing the waters, as they should, trying out new and better ways of getting food for the public. Some time ago they let out the information of this or that hormone, this or that chemical, this or that steroid to the food industry, telling them that in 'this quantity' it is safe enough and produces bigger and better food, and THAT is when some people got together and decided to capitalize on THAT idea. That's how it happened. Now it has become all we know, and has only gotten worse. You eat plastic and all kinds of chemicals everyday that your body tries to reject. And no, eating them constantly doesn't make you immune, it takes years off your life. Lovely eh?
Now, pure food is so rare that we have to give it a name, therefore making it seem like some new concept, "Organics", when IT is the concept that has been around since the beginning of time before harmful crap was being spoon-fed to us.
Posted on 2007-03-27 at 16:30:45.
Edited on 2007-03-27 at 16:32:08 by Fantasy
Organic simply means without use of manmade pesticides and growing enhancers. No chemicals whatsoever.
The only bad part about that is that our soil is so depleted of minerals and vitamins that even Organic food isn't as good for you as it once was. However it is better than the alternative as the human body cannot properly process any subtsance that is not natural.
Check out the back of a bag of crop pesticide...it states clearly...HAZARD...Not for human consumption. Well I wonder where they think that stuff goes when you put it in your soil? It goes into the very plant you are trying to protect and where does that end up? In your body. Hmmm...yes I agree there's a bit of propaganda going on but it stands to reason that the makers of these chmeicals have more to gain than Organic farmers especially since no-one takes the time to think for themselves anymore. They just blindly trust that their welfare is being taken into consideration. And don't get me started on the lobbyists in Washington and how all that ties into the deal and oh don't forget about health insurance companies having so much to gain by the public being slowly poisioned.
Cheesy petes...look at all these so=called diseases that's running rampant. Most of them shouldn't be classified as a disease. They are merely a side effect of some other ailment or a condition which exisits because your body can't tolerate the 'legal' poisons it's being fed.
But of course if you don't call it a disease you can't make money on it.
Oh and while I'm ranting...did you know that general practioner doctors are not trained in nutrition? I find that absolutely INSANE!! They have a tiny bit but most of what they are taught is learning how to interpret and treat symptoms with man made drugs. They aren't in this to heal, they are in it to treat your symptoms cuz if they actually healed you they would be out of a job.
Now tell me...knowing that our cells are fed exclusively by the nutrients we put in our body and knowing full well that if being healthy at the celluar level is true health wouldn't you want, even expect your physician to know about nutrition other than if you burn more calories than you take in you'll lose weight?
whew...I feel better
btw... I LUV YOU GUYS!!
Posted on 2007-03-27 at 16:56:42.
Edited on 2007-03-27 at 17:06:47 by Lyskhala
oh man, i know, tell me about it! I wish doctors were better informed on nutrition. Though, there are homeopathic doctors (my doctor is one), and they know a little more and generally give you natural solutions to help you. The only downside, in my case haha, is that he doesn't prescibe un-natural stuff very often at all..like pain killers! He sends you off with some asprin and says you'll be alright, just give it time. lol bah.
But he's right. He's both a medicinal doctor and a homeopathic doctor. Whoo, he must have been in college a lifetime. >_<
But just because he is homeopathic doesn't mean he knows that much about nutrition. I'm actually not sure if he knows more than the fundamental basics of nutrition, actually. He sends you to nutritionists for that info! arg. more money.
The beginning of time? Humans didn't start out farmers, you know. The very idea of farming or ranching in a human invention. By the definition of unnatural you folks seem to be using, it's ALL unnatural. Only hunting and gathering are natural, I suppose - unless you use tools and weapons, then that's unnatural, too. Regardless that's it's a technological step backwards, the organics food industry is still just that - an industry filling a market niche. People who saw a way to make money.
Also, any doctor who just blithely hands you aspirin is a quack. That stuff is very dangerous, and should by all rights be prescription only. The reason it's OTC now is because it's been on the market so long, the public would freak if you tried to take it away from them.
"Only hunting and gathering are natural, I suppose - unless you use tools and weapons"
In the begining it WAS all natural cuz we hadn't become 'wise' enough to poison our food supply with preservatives. And preservatives are what we are calling unnatural.
You're right, there weren't farmers back then but we aren't arguing the "process" of how it was gathered the point that was being made was the stuff they did obtain was not chemically altered by unantural substances.
i don't think ryst really understands...or reads. Who said anything about farmers? O_o
I'm talking about food. Food. ya know...like apples and peaches and pears. The caveman didn't put azinphos methyl in his chickens or his flowers.
Btw, he actually prescribes 'Paracetemol'...a medicine they have here. I just say asprin, as i don't know the english equivilant. But taking an asprin or ibuprofen a day has been proven to keep heart attacks at bay. Not saying that means it's healthy, but at least you won't get a heart attack. :S
I don't take asprin/paracetemol, as it does not help me. I take ibuprofen though. Is there something wrong with that?
Posted on 2007-03-27 at 20:10:31.
Edited on 2007-03-27 at 20:14:26 by Fantasy
We were talking about the process. Keeping dairy cows pregnant, pumping, hormones, steroids, pesticides. Proceses. Had the milk bit not come up, you might be able to make a case that you, at least, were only talking about the one aspect of the process, but... well. I think I've made my point.
Fan, how can you talk about food without talking about farmers? Especially apples, peaches, and pears. Do you think the food you eat is wild grown? Some of it, sure, but most of it is not. Who puts "azinphos methyl in his chickens or his flowers"? A farmer, that's who.
is life about a destination or is it one big journey? Life is a journey, ew all end up at the same destination.
do you belive in fate? if so, why? No. I believe in choice.
is it really survival of the fitiest? It should be. We've kind of interfered a lot to keep the flawed alive and breeding.
is there a way to see or feel the soul/ how about taint or purify it? Only from within.
can a human being truly change? Yes.
can people evolve? Of course.
why is death so,...pointless?
yin and yang exist and to much of either would result in death so, is it ever possible to have and maintain a perfect balance? I deny the philosophical concept of balance in favor of the reality of entropy. In the end, we all waste away to nothing.
Celedwe: Cold is it? Well, I'll see what I can do, but given my limited time scale, I make no promises.
Ryst, you're making yourself sound stupid. You should know that, because we're all talking in realistic terms, and you're complicating something simple. Well, you're not even complicating it, you're changing the point to make yourself sound right, but it isn't working for you, because farmers have nothing to do with wild grown food from the beginning of time. Sure, farmers have been around since the beginning of time and it's the same thing, farmers DIDN'T put that chemical in their food for millions of years, and still don't, if they're natural growing farmers. Do you even know what that chemical is, or does? I get my information out of books and agricultural/food/environmental scientists, where do you get yours? So sit back and stop trying to have the last word about something you're obviously not understanding.
I actually think you DO understand it, but you think we're trying to 'prove you wrong', but the point was never to aruge with you in the first place, or even start a debate for that matter. When someone asked me what organic meat was, i only told them what it was. I knew you would make something of it, just because you're against animal activists. Whether the topic was about organic meat or me having to put my dog down and me being upset about it, you would have something to say about it. I think it's all in an effort to make yourself feel better about 'perhaps' what you feel quilty for, what what people may think your faults are. But if it isn't that, then you do it just to make yourself like a know-it-all, and sadly, you don't know the half of it, pal. By the way, if seal clubbing isn't done for sport, then they would use a gun or a knife, and not whack the animal to death in the back of the head with a big bat like a ratard. I feel bad for even having to sound insulting towards you, because i liked you and i thought you were a funny guy, but i hate how you handle yourself when trying to debate, i think it's terrible. If i really didn't like you, i think i would be pretty mean in this situation, but like i said, i don't want to hurt your feelings, i just want you to stop trying so hard to prove ....what point?
That's my question, Ryst, what are you trying to prove now? You're going to have a big answer for that, i'm sure, but i really would like to know what you're trying to prove. Because most of everything you have said has been something of no actuality or actually pertaining to the right point of conversation. The thing is, there is no -point- to this. Organic meats are, as quoted by the USDA's Organic Headlines: animals must (1) not be fed by any rendered animal by-products, (2) must be traced through their lifecycle, (3) must not be fed antibiotics or growth hormones and, (4) must be allowed to engage in natural behaviors, such as seasonal access to pasture. These two organizations offer certifications to farmers an companies who go beyond USDA organic standards, and that includes the method of slaughter, and an even better handling on the chemical-free process:
-Humane Farm Animal Care (HFAC)
-The Food Alliance
There is really nothing more to say to this, though i'm sure you'll find something, even though there is no point. Is your goal to get people to not eat organic, pure meat and foods? Is there something wrong with the fact that i value my life, my family's life, and the life of animals? Is it so bad that I care a little more and don't mind trying a little harder to avoid the now 'customary' way of life? That i love animals and sense their pain? That i feel sorry for them because of their ignorance? That I like to have a healthier lifestyle? That i want to live as long as possible. Is it really so bad!!?
I would love to be completely vegetarian, and when i was, i had so much pride in the fact that i didn't eat meat. But i realised how difficult that is really. Finding fake milk, finding fake cheese, finding desserts, cakes, cooking creams, and even food seasonings that didn't come from animals. Then i found out about Organic/Biological/Animal Friendly products, and being realistic, i made that my new way of life. Once i started reaseaching this stuff, i starting realizing all the other aspects, like the health. I'm slowly turning my whole house into as much of a pure environment as i can. For myself, for Michiel, and for my kids when they come.
So what is so wrong with that, that I care and do something about it? I didn't tell anyone to eat organic meat, and i certainly didn't tell you too. I told them what it was and how I feel about it. I do wish i were more of an activist, actually, but I've had enough at the moment of hearing rude remarks made by jerk-offs who don't give a damn about the value of life, any life. And i'm not talking about you, I'm talking about idiots on myspace, or any other place where people can find out that I'm against animal mistreatment. And people that I see on the street, on TV, hear on the radio. People who say or do ridiculous, unbelievable things that make me wish they could be in the place of whatever animal or person they're bashing or not caring about.
So you can go sit in your chair there and try to think of something witty to say about this, but you're not convincing anyone that organic foods are a bad thing, if that's what your underlying meaning is. It sure sounds that way. Like you're offended that me (or others) eat organic food and have something good to say about it. If you can give a waitress a 400 dollar tip, i can surely spend my money on what i think is a good cause as well. I'm trying to help not only one person, but my whole surroundings, environment, and some animals in the process. So get off it, Will.
Posted on 2007-03-28 at 06:40:32.
Edited on 2007-03-28 at 20:43:27 by Fantasy
Thank you for (hopefully) ending that (not so) little flamewar
OK, Fan, take a breath, now that you've made a lot of good points, and finished thoroughly owning your opponent.
Ryst, I have no ire toward you, but does the expression "Let sleeping dogs lie." mean *anything* to you? I think not, because if it did, you would've dropped this 2 pages ago. The flamewar is over, it doesn't matter, and nobody will care if you get the last word, or if you think you "win".
Isn't that a hard truth? Nobody cares. Are pride and vanity the only reason you keep these things up, or do you feel some overriding need for attention from your computer that you can't get *outside*, because, if you haven't noticed, many people here are taking 90% (figure from Grugg I think) of what you say with a grain of salt.
Earlier, when I said you sound like Lou, there are 2 things you must understand.
1. That was NOT a compliment. I can't stand to be in the same area with Lou for five minutes, and I think he has a terrible sense of honor.
2. I didn't say you sounded a bit like Lou. If you're gonna quote me, do it right. I said "Has anyone ever told you that you sound very much like Cap'n Lou?". I would think it wouldn't be too difficult for someone whose strongest form of argument is twisting other people's words to actually quote and interpret such a simple, straightforward sentence correctly.
"I have been told I sound a bit like Lou... I disagree, but I'm hardly an objective observer, am I?"
You disagree? tell that to someone who isn't reading your posts.
There. That wasn't so hard. Try it sometime.
Posted on 2007-03-28 at 07:43:37.
Edited on 2007-03-28 at 08:12:42 by Miko_Ayune-sama