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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> General Forum --> Gaming surveys --> Vampires VS Lycanthropes
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Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
Karma: 66/191
544 Posts


Vorrioch

I was more or less assuming European vampirism, since a Chinese vampire has almost nothing in common with the creatures we're talking about. You were talking about WoD, but the original post was not, so I thought I'd jump in with some perspective on that front. Yes, there ar variations on the theme in the rest of the world, I won't even try to argue against that, as it is completely accurate and I agree 100%

The sexualization of vampires is a VERY modern devlopment compared to the age of the vampire legends as a whole. It seems to have arisen more or less entirely within the Victorian era, a time so completely repressed that essentially everything was sexualized.


Posted on 2009-01-08 at 23:56:00.

Skari-dono
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1514 Posts


whu?

I never said that that running water, being sockless or grains in a jar killed vampires, and I did notice that you were talking about killing vampires. Your discussion of how to kill vampires according to legend only reminded me of these tricks to keep them at bay (possibly even keeping them occupied long enough to kill them).

I don't remember the part about grains in the story of Dracula, although I admit I have only seen the movie and not read the book (which I completely agree I should read), so how can you claim that it was not Stoker's idea that vampires are not killed by sunlight? Sure, some guy made a move that is said to be the origin of that legend, but who is to say that is correct? And what, I like to ramble and disagree with people. It's in my nature.

And I forgot some weapons which do work perfectly against vampires in WoD at range. Thrown edge weapons such as hatchets and knives, crossbows and normal bows. Arrows can even be lit on fire for increased effect. Even without flaming tips, these weapons deal lethal damage to vampires. Just thought I'd throw them in there.

EDIT: The original post was probably referring to hollywoodized version of vampires and werewolves, as seen in most modern media (such as Underworld, Twilight and what have you). In that respect, werewolves would still kick the vampires' butts.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:14:47.
Edited on 2009-01-09 at 00:17:30 by Skari-dono

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
Karma: 66/191
544 Posts


Fiar enough

Dracula had nothing about grains in it. That's from somewhere else.

I can calim that it was not Stoker's idea that vampires are not killed by sunlight becuase there's no reference to them being killed by sunlight I've ever heard of (nor apprently that anyone I've ever talked to has ever heard of), from before the 1920s. If you've come across something older than that, I'd like to ehar about it, but until someone can provide an example otehrwsie, I'll stand by what I said earlier.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:33:14.

Skari-dono
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1514 Posts


hmm

I must admit that I haven't heard ot any either, but I haven't heard of anything that says they survived in sunlight. We can't really tell either way until we do, can we?


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:40:29.

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
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544 Posts


Well...

Given that sunlight is not generally fatal to anyone or anything, I think it's a fairly safe assumption that unless specifically stated otherwise, it doesn't kill your specific supernatural. I mean, I can't recall any instances of zombies specifically surviving the wind, either, but I feel it's pretty safe to say that it's not fatal.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:50:12.

Vorrioch
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406 Posts


Sunlight

If I remember correctly, a lot of the Southern European folklore about vampires being magically compelled to count beans or mustard grains revolved around the idea that the vampire would continue counting until dawn, at which point the sunlight would destroy it.

So there is some mythological basis to this idea beyond more recent Hollywood films.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 01:08:54.

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
Karma: 66/191
544 Posts


Interesting

Do you, by chance, have any reference for that?


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 01:31:20.

Vorrioch
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406 Posts


Reference

I donít have a book reference on hand, no. In fact I donít have any non-RPG related vampire books in the house at all.

Do a quick Google search, though, and itís certainly a recurring theme. Of course, personal web pages arenít exactly authoritative so make of this what you will.

To prevent a vampire returning to its tomb a good solution is to sprinkle large amounts of mustard seeds outside. The vampire, constrained to count every last seed before he passes, is soon caught by the dawn and perishes.
http://www.tabula-rasa.info/Horror/VampireMythos.html


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 11:14:24.
Edited on 2009-01-09 at 11:15:11 by Vorrioch

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
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544 Posts


Yeah...

Tabula Rasa, though, is a video game. Pretty modern reference, that.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 11:16:28.

Vorrioch
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406 Posts


Iím guessing you didnít click the link then?

Itís a link to a vampire fanzine. Do a Google search and youíll find plenty of other sites saying the same.

And here's a link to another of their articles in the same vein. For what it's worth they actually seem quite well researched.

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/BurntToast/Issue13/WhatIsSF.html

Alternatively, if youíre subscribed to Athens I can try to find a link to an actual journal article. (If you aren't on Athens then it won't let you view the link).


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 11:22:28.
Edited on 2009-01-09 at 11:25:07 by Vorrioch

Skari-dono
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1514 Posts


...

Yes, Tabula Rasa is a video game. Interestingly enough, the word does not originate in that game (shock!). The first time I heard about it was in psychology class (or sociology class) where it was said to refer to the idea that a child begins blank and then it learns stuff.

Tabula Rasa is also the name of one episode in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where the main characters all lose their memory and begin as blanks and learns stuff from assumptions. It's a funny episode.

But seriously, tabula rasa does not solely refer to a video game.

Also, I heard the same thing about counting grains (or what have you) and sunlight.


Posted on 2009-01-09 at 12:19:31.

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
Karma: 66/191
544 Posts


Yeah, yeah

I know the phrase didn't originate with the game. It's Latin, and orginated in, you know... Rome. It looked like a game link to me.

Anyway, I followed the link, read it, and couldn't find a single ference to a pre-Nosferatu vampire killed by sunlight. Maybe I'm missing it.


Posted on 2009-01-12 at 03:57:59.

Vorrioch
Chaotic Hungry
Karma: 38/6
406 Posts


This is getting a bit tediousÖ

Hereís the reference from my first post again.

To prevent a vampire returning to its tomb a good solution is to sprinkle large amounts of mustard seeds outside. The vampire, constrained to count every last seed before he passes, is soon caught by the dawn and perishes.
http://www.tabula-rasa.info/Horror/VampireMythos.html

If youíd prefer a book reference then please follow the link, and youíll find the following referenced in the article:

  1. The Rivals of Dracula, edited by Michael Parry, Corgi, London, 1977.
  2. The Vampire in Legend, Fact and Art, by Basil Copper, Corgi, London, 1973
  3. A Dictionary of Monsters and Mysterious Beasts, by Carey Miller, Piccolo, London, 1974.
  4. HŰtel Transylvania, by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, Signet, New York, 1979.

Maybe that might be a good place to start if youíre actually interested in finding out more about the subject. Thereís also absolutely no point in asking for references if youíve no intention of following them - seriously, how hard would it have been to click the link and read the article for yourself the first time round?


Posted on 2009-01-12 at 11:34:39.
Edited on 2009-01-12 at 12:16:28 by Vorrioch

Skari-dono
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1514 Posts


wow

This is starting to turn into a rather pointless arguing over the historical legend of vampires. You may have noticed that we've gotten a bit off track (not saying I did not help in doing so).

But I think we should stop this arguement now. Instantly. Before it gets out of hand. No more arguing after this post whether vampires were originally killed by sunlight or just glimmered or something. No more arguing about historical refrences, some of us haven't lived that long to care.

Vampires vs. Lycanthropes (vampires in the sense of those seen in modern action/adventure movies which are killed by sunlight, and lycanthropes in the sense of all were-creatures), I would have to say it depended on what werecreature. A vampire would most likely win against a werepenguin or a werebunny, and possibly against a wereorca on dry land, but I'd say a werewolf would beat a vampire.


Posted on 2009-01-12 at 12:31:27.

Rystefn K'ryll
Original Palassassin
Karma: 66/191
544 Posts


Small problem, though

Vampires killed by sunlight are a lot easier for a werewolf to kill than vampires not killed by sunlight.

Also, none of those books predate the 1920s. If you're going get all upset about me not following the link, you should do so before I actually follow the link, by the way. Waiting until after I've followed it is something of a waste of time, isn't it?


Posted on 2009-01-12 at 21:12:49.

   


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