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Dragon Fodder
Karma: 80/19
2264 Posts

All i can add is

Without metagaming we can only go by what was posting in character, and the way what was said came across is likely why characters are acting in such a manner.

Posted on 2013-05-07 at 22:14:13.

Teller of Aryn
RDI Fixture
Karma: 21/1
509 Posts


Not how I wanted this game to get started. I knew some ppl on here have a hard time with one another but thought things could be worked out. Guess I was wrong.

Therefore, this game is done before it gets started. I give up. Every time I try to get something going there are always problems.

Sorry but this game is over!

Posted on 2013-05-07 at 22:32:44.

RDI Fixture
Karma: 122/12
2001 Posts

A reply...

Tann, I've written a reply. And I'd welcome your feedback... maybe we should move this to PMs... I don't know. But here it is...
OK once again I seem to be defending a post of mine from Keeper, go figure. There are a number of reasons for my post none of them greedy or selfish.

Scott: I'm not exactly looking for you to defend your post, Tann. I'm saying that your post, and Crow's actions, make it difficult for some of the other characters to proceed further without calling Crow to account for his actions. And, I wonder maybe if there's a way to still play Crow as you envision him while at the same time working towards party unity.

For instance, I think most of Nadya's conflict over Crow's actions lie in Crow's taking of Lambert's share with "a smile on his face". That action has Crow come off as smug, arrogant Syl who does not seem to value his companions. I talk more about this at the end...

1) We are not the first party to go here for this book so Crow wants any advantage he can get to make sure the PARTY gets there, gets the book, and does not die in the attempt.

Scott: I think I understand what you mean here. Tremain did say that we were the first group that he is sending to actually retrieve the book, but Teller of Aryn did also say that everyone who has attempted to enter the keep (for whatever reason) has not returned.
2) Crow has no need of Tomes or Books as he cannot read and lives mostly outdoors. So he did what I would do and asked for something else. However if you read my post he did so not only for himself but for Saadar and Kaelyn’s characters too as they are not “Spellcasters” or book types.

Scott: Yep, as a player, I didn't have too much of a problem with what Crow actually asked for. Nadya didn't particular care for how Crow made the request (Crow's "Oh great librarian.." lines come across as sarcastic, distainful and arrogant), but, as a player, I can work out a post for Nadya.
3) Though he took the 500 gold given up by Tek’s character he only took it because Tek gave it up. Crow never asked for more money just questioned if going to this tower for 1000 gold was worth dying for. On top of that he is not pocketing that money for himself but using it to find anything magical that once again will help him and thus the PARTY survive this quest.

Scott: I'm don't think that's exactly what Tek posted... that Crow was free to take Lambert's share. He definitely posted Lambert offering to give Crow his share after they completed the mission. Whether he meant the entire 1000 gold or just the 500 gold that each receives at the end, I can't be certain. Perhaps Tek could clarify that for us.

As far as spending the extra money of magical gear for himself to help the party... part of the problem with that is the characters, in character, don't know Crow's intentions as he is pursuing the purchasing of equipment outside of their presence (and you stated those intention OOC). So, from Nadya's perspective (and mine) it seems as though Crow just helped himself to a share that did not belong to him for his own personal gain... which comes off as greedy. To push it further, you posted that Crow actually smiled while helping himself to Lambert's share, which makes Crow come off as smugly arrogant.

This is the part of your post that I feel pushes some of our characters into a corner, where they either rebuke Crow some more, call it quits, or kick Crow out... none of those options feel really enjoyable to write as a player.

4) Crow’s job as Pathfinder puts him in the most danger as I will be in front of the party by 30-40 yards in wooded areas and such and will possibly be the first to be attacked. So again any advantage he can gain he will take.

Scott: I get that Crow's looking for the advantage to help preserve his own life and, by doing so, the lives of the party members as well... so, I have no problem with Crow's response to Lambert being, "My cause is my own and I can ask for things as much as anyone else" and "your hurt feelings be damned" (I liked that line actually). I'm just trying to find the virtue in Crow... it's one thing to look for the advantage. It's another thing, though, for Crow to take advantage of another companion. That's how your post came across to me... like Crow was taking advantage of Lambert.
5) As far as teamwork that will be no problem as I will work with everyone as he is no ‘Lone wolf’. However he does not consider any in the party as a friend but more like co-workers due to his background. Crow will do his job and do it to the best of his abilities for the betterment of the PARTY.

Scott: I'm not so much worried that you won't play Crow as a skillful pathfinder. (I'm quite confident in your ability to do so actually) I'm more "worried" that few of the other characters are going to be too interested in working with Crow if he continues to treat people the way he did in this first encounter. They'll just find a new companion...
6) I’m attempting to play my alignment as stated in the 2nd Edition Players Handbook as copy and pasted below.

Scott: I appreciate that. I guess I'm trying to discover the "good" and "virtuous" parts of Crow to help Nadya (and Alana) overlook what seems to also be arrogant and smugness of Crow. Do you understand what I mean? Currently, from mine and Nadya's prespective, Crow's a hard person to like. What's "heroic" about Crow?
7) Finally as I know Keeper as a close friend in real life Ayrn, if he wants to quit, let him quit. There is no point in trying to get him to stay if he wants to go; he is very stubborn that way. Honestly, though he is a good friend, HE has more problems with my posts whether I post them as a DM or a player then any one person I know.

Scott: I'm less inclined to give up yet on Keeper or Alana. I like the character. And I'm hoping he'll stay. I'm wondering if maybe we can find a way to bring us all together.

For instance, if you had Crow, instead of taking Lambert's share, he tossed the share over to another companions and said, "Someone should probably make sure the priest gets this." ... I think we'd just be in a different place right now. Crow comes out as the "hero" and the "bigger man", able to put aside himself for the betterment of Lambert.

Anyway, maybe it doesn't matter anymore... I don't know.

Peace, man.

Posted on 2013-05-07 at 22:50:30.
Edited on 2013-05-07 at 22:52:06 by Ayrn

Dragon Fodder
Karma: 80/19
2264 Posts

This makes me sad

Not in any way a good way to return to the inn im this turn of events

Posted on 2013-05-07 at 23:26:09.

Trilogy Master
RDI Staff
Karma: 176/117
6405 Posts

Ayrn I agree

With everything you posted and realize after reading your post above that my post came off wrong. Rereading my post I can see where taking the gold smiling was the wrong way to put it. I was trying to play him per his alignment and got carried away with the fact of his being an Elf also. I don't know what else to say other then I made a mistake and hope Teller will rethink her decision to not run this game.

Since I wrote the post I’ll drop out if she feels that is for the best though I’d like to stay.

Posted on 2013-05-07 at 23:31:10.

Dragon Fodder
Karma: 80/19
2264 Posts

for the love of all the effort

it took relearning 2e in like 2 days... please dont let this die! <3

Posted on 2013-05-08 at 06:18:55.

Jumpin' Jack Smash
Karma: 44/13
675 Posts


90% sure we're all adults here. A shame we couldn't all play like one. Maybe one day.. I'd have liked to see how this game panned out.

Posted on 2013-05-08 at 11:20:25.

Trilogy Master
RDI Staff
Karma: 176/117
6405 Posts

Teller please run this game

Ok I rewrote the last part of my post on the advice of Aryn after realizing he was correct in the way it was taken.

Whether Teller continues to run the game or not is her call but I hope she does and though I wish to stay I will drop out if that convinces her to proceed.

Posted on 2013-05-08 at 16:49:00.

Epic Level Bard
Karma: 31/3
557 Posts


Teller of Aryn, I have the first post ready to go when you add me to those who can submit to this game...

Thank you again for the opportunity to play.

Posted on 2013-05-16 at 02:39:44.

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