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You are here: Home --> Forum Home --> General Forum --> Recruitment Threads --> DM Looking for Players
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RDI Fixture
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607 Posts



Posted on 2014-07-16 at 00:05:48.

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102 Posts


I'll get a Q&A up right now, and a thread in the Common Forums for setting this up. The name of this campaign is "Relistan".

Posted on 2014-07-16 at 00:18:46.

Karma: 10/0
251 Posts


Thanks so much!! I'll get me a cleric started immediately!

Posted on 2014-07-16 at 05:14:11.

RDI Fixture
Karma: 122/12
1999 Posts

Question regarding the "special" ruling

Hi Axiomatic,

I was wondering if you could clarify for me the ruling regarding "dead levels"...

If I were looking to play a sorcerer, does every level after the first count as a "dead level" because there is nothing listed in the "special" column, or does the fact that the sorcerer increased in spellcasting power count as "special"?

Thanks so much!

Posted on 2014-07-17 at 04:18:07.

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102 Posts

Not as broken as you think!!!

Yes, those count as dead levels.

But it's not as overpowered as you think. Look at the classes introduced in the supplemental books- like the beguiler, or the dragon shaman, for example. The warlock in all honesty is another class that makes the sorcerer look like mincemeat.

While it seems ridiculously broken, it actually balances it all out, especially since so many prestige classes and feats require a BAB of +7, and the Sorcerer doesn't get that until....later. Than level 10. I think it's around level 16 but I'm not sure. In addition, this makes over half of the arcane spellcaster classes a lot worse since they do the "+1 level of arcane spellcasting" anyway. Therefore, classes like the Eldritch Knight become pretty awful.

Furthermore, let's look at the dragon shaman a bit deeper. It has a Breath weapon that advances in damage like the Sneak Attack. However, it doesn't need to be sneaking- instead, it just lets loose its elemental breath in either a 30 foot line or a 15 foot cone! The recharge rate still keeps it at a pretty high advantage over the sneak attack, and the Warlock class's Eldritch Blast (9d6 damage by level 20) could be done whenever, in addition to making the targets gain negative levels.

Anyways, back to the Sorcerer, if the point isn't across yet. Let's compare him to the Warmage from Complete Arcane. The warmage is essentially a sorcerer with an Evocation focus (which is quite common to do when being a sorcerer), except you get away with wearing Medium armor, in addition to doing bonus damage based on his intelligence. Yes, there is no familiar with the Warmage, but the Obtain Familiar feat takes care of all of that.

Okay, all said and done, but there's still the problem of monsters, right? Are the Challenge Ratings still accurate? Yes, they completely are. In fact, they're actually more accurate than ever, since the classes are more balanced now. If it is wrong, however, it'll be consistently wrong, which would mean that there would be a simple CR adjustment for this rule system to apply to all monsters (for example, the CR for a level 4 encounter might actually be more suited for a level 3 party, so the CR adjustment would be -1)

Posted on 2014-07-17 at 04:34:13.
Edited on 2014-07-17 at 04:47:58 by Axiomatic

RDI Fixture
Karma: 122/12
1999 Posts


I have one more clarifying question:

If I played a fighter, and took the Bard special features in the dead levels, would I also gain the bards spell progression?

So... for example, say a Human Fighter 10, would gain the bonus feats at 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th and the bard special features for levels 3, 5, 7, 9... allowing him to cast 2nd level bard spells?

Regarding everything else, though, he'd be progressing as a fighter (hit points, base attack progression, good fort saves, 2 skill points per level)?


Posted on 2014-07-17 at 04:52:52.

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102 Posts

Good Question

The answer is Yes, but No.

If you start with a nonspellcasting class and fill an empty level with a Spellcasting class, you would gain a limited few of the bard's Spellcasting features, but you would gain the bard's HD in place of your base class and the bard's class skills and skill points- class skills and skill points, in my opinion, are too fundamental to a class to ignore. To balance that out, you basically trade a better skill point allotment (for this level only) for an HD of 1d6 this level.

You essentially "add" the bard's class skills to your class skill list, but you only get the bard's +6 skill points on that dead level. You could put fighter skill points in bard skills on later levels though.

However, you do get some Spellcasting ability. You know as many spells as a first level bard, and can cast as many Cantrips per day as a first level bard. You don't gain any other spells per day other than the bonus spells per day that you would receive from a high Charisma score. Therefore, you could cast 2nd level spells, but you completely rely on your charisma stat for spells/day, so unless if your fighter has 18's all around (which is OP in any DnD game), you're not going anywhere.

At level 10, this fighter would have the feats from 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, Bardic knowledge/music, fascinate, countersong, inspire courage, and so on. On those empty levels in the bard class, you don't get to fill the filler class level (if that wording makes sense) with another class. Instead, you get your choice of Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Diligent, Deft Hands, Nimble Fingers, Persuasive, Perceptive, Wild Talent, Skill Focus (any skill), Toughness, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Expanded Knowledge, Extra Spell, or Extra Spell Slot.

Now, if you had chosen the Psion instead of the Bard, things would have been a little different. You would start off with the minimum number of powers known, the starter power points, and the beginning manifester level. As you'd level up as a psion, however, only your manifester level and your powers known would increase. Again, you'd have to rely on your stat to give you bonus power points to use those powers. Of course, you could work around that with Cognizence (I butchered the spelling there, humor me here) crystals, but you'd still have to get the power points from something other than yourself- you wouldn't be able to craft it, essentially.

This brings up a good point: This rules system makes the Bard unbearably broken. In my opinion, since the Bard can get you into so many prestige classes, it becomes the Master of Any Trade and Jack of All Others instead of the Jack of All Trades. Luckily, nobody chose to be a bard XD

Posted on 2014-07-17 at 11:05:59.
Edited on 2014-07-17 at 12:34:25 by Axiomatic

Karma: 18/0
207 Posts

I would be interested

Hey, I would be interested in joining the party (if you'll have me of course) I have been toying with the idea of playing a disciplined caster druid/mage/sorcerer or perhaps a hybrid using the dead level system you mentioned.


Posted on 2014-07-20 at 18:31:01.

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Karma: 4/0
102 Posts


Do it!!!! Do it!!!!! The full set of rules though is on the Q&A for our game.

Also, please use for character sheet stuff so we can be super efficient and things. ^.^

Posted on 2014-07-20 at 21:00:33.

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